Discussion to replace forums

Talk, ideas, changes, critics ... everything Forum related topics
Forum rules
The forums were migrated over to https://central.owncloud.org which is based on the forum software Discourse. The forums here is put into read-only mode starting from today.

More background information about this move and the reasoning behind it is available in this blogpost:

https://daniel.molkentin.net/2016/07/20 ... d-central/
tflidd
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Re: Discussion to replace forums

Postby tflidd » Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:50 pm

I have set up a little test session, and it's very nice to handle. For users, it will be easier to find similar questions and this will probably reduce the number of duplicates. For a start, we could try to migrate some of the FAQs and tutorials.

What I am missing in askbot is the possibility to login via github (shouldn't there be already modules to implement this easily?). We should avoid that users have to create just another account (at least use the same login for forum and askbot).

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Re: Discussion to replace forums

Postby rakekniven » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:58 pm

Any things going on here?

Just had a quick look at memberlist.php?mode=&sk=d&sd=d#memberlist and there it is obvious IMHO: We lack of man power. Who will spend time on ask.owncloud?
As soon as you open the door you have to close one system, or?

From my POV the forums are in a good shape. Most topics get answered, but yes there are many duplicates and lazy users.

My forum time will be very limited in 2016. The rush will start again in two days ;)
ownCloud is not only about files. There is so much more. Explore the apps to extend your ownCloud.

RealRancor
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Re: Discussion to replace forums

Postby RealRancor » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:16 pm

Hi,

i would say anything else is better than this forums. :) Especially with that few "Power-Users" in here.
*gone*

tflidd
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Re: Discussion to replace forums

Postby tflidd » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:34 pm

rakekniven wrote:Any things going on here?

Just had a quick look at memberlist.php?mode=&sk=d&sd=d#memberlist and there it is obvious IMHO: We lack of man power. Who will spend time on ask.owncloud?
As soon as you open the door you have to close one system, or?

I did some initial tests but it is hard to tell how people will react in the real world. For me, it looks good and could have some advantages (less duplicate entries, better search feature, ..). A remaining issue is the missing login with your github credentials.

The last months, RealRancor answered most of the questions. It was often a spot for lazy users who don't know how to use a search engine. Either we ignore or delete such posts. Or you pay someone to answer these questions again and again.

To keep the forum and the askbot is probably too much. Either we prefer the support of the askbot and let the forum die slowly (or change it to use it for discussions that aren't possible in askbot) or we put it in a read-only mode.

rakekniven wrote:From my POV the forums are in a good shape. Most topics get answered, but yes there are many duplicates and lazy users.

We will see the next weeks how it is doing without RealRancor.

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Re: Discussion to replace forums

Postby RealRancor » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:52 pm

Hi,

isn't Askbot giving some power to users so they also can mark duplicates or off-topic posts like "How can i install apache"? That would (hopefully) solve the manpower issue partly.

Either we ignore or delete such posts.


Ignoring would cause " no one wants to help me" cry posts where deleting posts is an no-go from my PoV.

To keep the forum and the askbot is probably too much. Either we prefer the support of the askbot and let the forum die slowly (or change it to use it for discussions that aren't possible in askbot) or we put it in a read-only mode.


Completely agree with that.
*gone*

tflidd
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Re: Discussion to replace forums

Postby tflidd » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:27 pm

RealRancor wrote:Hi,

isn't Askbot giving some power to users so they also can mark duplicates or off-topic posts like "How can i install apache"? That would (hopefully) solve the manpower issue partly.

Yes, a user gains "karma" points by positive actions on the askbot (e.g. answering questions and his question being marked as best solution). With growing number of these karma points, you can allow users to acquire more permissions, like tagging questions, editing posts, positive/negative voting of answers and questions.

A lot of default settings (from the askbots' own askbot and askfedora) are very restrictive. You often can't add links to your posing or you are not allowed to comment on other questions without a certain level of karma. For me, that is too restrictive for users asking for the first time. I'd like the user to be able to post a reasonable question with all important information (links to guides he used, logfiles, ...). There seems to be one setting that if you want to add a link and you don't have enough karma that you have to solve a google captcha (style "mark all pictures showing a cat").

There are still the roles of admins and moderators. Karma points can be assigned manually.

What we need to discuss:
  • What Karma-settings are the most reasonable for us?
  • Which tags do we need (should reflect different setups, oc versions, ...)
  • How do we manage users? Can we migrate existing forum users?
  • Github-authenticator as 3rd-party login is not available at the moment. Can this be done easily?
    (http://django-social-auth.readthedocs.o ... ithub.html)

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Re: Discussion to replace forums

Postby RealRancor » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:50 pm

Hi,

that sound quite nice. Even the restriction as it happens so often that users are posting stuff like "i have the same problem" without any value or even if this is not the same issue.

What we need to discuss:

What Karma-settings are the most reasonable for us?
Which tags do we need (should reflect different setups, oc versions, ...)
How do we manage users? Can we migrate existing forum users?
Github-authenticator as 3rd-party login is not available at the moment. Can this be done easily?


That are good questions. Without having a look at askbot itself its probably only possible to answer:

Which tags do we need (should reflect different setups, oc versions, ...)


I think those can evolve over time but the basic like shown in the support template:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28

or the issue template at github could be a starting point.



P.S. Moved to Hosting area? Is this really the correct place?
*gone*

tflidd
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Re: Discussion to replace forums

Postby tflidd » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:05 pm

RealRancor wrote:
I think those can evolve over time but the basic like shown in the support template:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28

or the issue template at github could be a starting point.

That is a good idea. We need to establish a routine that we don't forget a specific tag, e.g. oc-version. Perhaps even tag more difficult questions where the help of more experienced users might be needed or that could be interesting even for developers.

RealRancor wrote:P.S. Moved to Hosting area? Is this really the correct place?

I didn't move anything on purpose.

P.S.: I sent you a login to my test-installation via PM if you want to get an impression of the system.

RealRancor
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Re: Discussion to replace forums

Postby RealRancor » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:54 pm

Ah, sorry. The thread is an announcement. It seems to show up at each forums. :oops:

Thanks for the link, will have a look later.
*gone*

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Re: Discussion to replace forums

Postby seijirou » Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:43 pm

RealRancor wrote:The main problem with the forums is that the same questions are asked over and over again.


I know I'm brand new here, but not new to forums and support in general.

I'll argue that this isn't actually a problem, it's perfectly normal and it's even healthy for the community.

The reason that this is perceived to be an issue by those who participate to help, is that they grow weary of repeating themselves, but they incorrectly blame their weariness on those asking the questions.

The real solution is to make it more efficient and easy for the contributors to provide the answers to common questions.

Keep in mind that most repeat questions are going to come from new users; new to the application and new to the community. If you follow the current line of thinking (that repeat questions are a problem or a bad thing) to its logical conclusion nobody should be posting anything and if they do they only get a callous response of "you should be using search" with an implied "you jerk" at the end. That kind of prickly first impression is often going to result in turning people away from both the community and the product.


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