Important: Windows support is/will be dropped

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The forums were migrated over to https://central.owncloud.org which is based on the forum software Discourse. The forums here is put into read-only mode starting from today.

More background information about this move and the reasoning behind it is available in this blogpost:

https://daniel.molkentin.net/2016/07/20 ... d-central/
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Re: Important: Windows support is/will be dropped

Postby tflidd » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:25 pm

I see your point. You could run owncloud on a virtual server and connect your storage via smbclient. If there is some demand, it's probably worth to provide a virtual-server image for such a use case.

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Re: Important: Windows support is/will be dropped

Postby madmoneymike5 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:56 pm

Not everyone has an extra computer that they'd want to run Linux on, even if they knew how.

tflidd wrote:The closest owncloud "out of the box"-experience you can get is a virtual server environment...


I have no idea what a virtual server environment or virtualbox are, which just goes to support my point. You finished up that comment noting that it would still be on a Linux platform and you have to tinker with it (change passwords, SSL certificates, etc). Not really an out of the box experience at all.

I should clarify that my basis of comparison is Dropbox; I was looking for a private 'clone' of Dropbox when I found ownCloud. It seemed to be exactly what I was looking for, but with a different user interface, which ordinarily wouldn't be a big deal. What I got myself into, however, was not the ease and simplicity of Dropbox. (I am aware that the likelihood that ownCloud's backbone is Windows-based is very rare; my point is merely to compare the ease of use for the user, without any complicated setup procedures and that their client appears to run without ever having so much as a warning or error.) I will clarify one other thing as well, and that is that I'm assuming ownCloud developers/backers are targeting the masses as the end user/customer, most of whom use Windows. The ratio of those who use Windows versus those that use Linxus is heavily skewed to the Windows side.

One other assumption I am making, which I don't think is unrealistic at all, is that a vast majority of "Linux-server guys" probably got their start with Windows before they learned about Linux. Eventually they found Windows limiting or for some reason, untenable, so they switched to Linux, much like many former Apple iPhone users have jumped ship and switched to Android.

Sure there are financial concerns, as you mention - revenue must exceed expenses in every segment or it doesn't justify keeping that segment around. I am a business owner, I get that. Even so...

In short, I understand the reasons for the decision to remove support for Windows, but I am not convinced it was the right or the only option. You ask what do I suggest? Jim Collins wrote in his book, "From Good to Great," that you need to get the right people on the bus before you set your destination. The question is, "Who?" then, "What?" It seems to me the development team is lacking the skills needed to continue developing a Windows version, so get the people who do on the bus.

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Re: Important: Windows support is/will be dropped

Postby tflidd » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:51 pm

The forum is not involved in the development, we don't add or drop support for platforms or technologies. We can try to help you to set up a possible solution in a given situation.

Suppose we provide a tutorial, how to setup owncloud on a virtual machine on your Windows Desktop (without additional hardware), would that be helpful? In the end, it will be more complicated than with dropbox (because you install the client and the server of this cloud-service). On any box, either owncloud or your router or whatever, you want to change default passwords and create own certificates (e.g. certificates for OpenVPN on your router).

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Re: Important: Windows support is/will be dropped

Postby madmoneymike5 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:57 pm

The tutorial is a great idea, but it's still a band-aid fix. The dev team needs to recruit Windows server expertise.

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Re: Important: Windows support is/will be dropped

Postby RealRancor » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:01 pm

Hi,

i think its the other way: Those who wants to have windows support again needs to contribute their windows expertise or find someone having this and wants to contribute it.

*Edit*
Seems the oC dev team is also sharing this opinion:

Aside from migration, if enough people step up to fix the bugs related to Windows Server support in ownCloud 8 and commit to supporting ownCloud on Windows, there is no reason not to bring a future release back to Windows Server.


https://owncloud.org/blog/owncloud-serv ... -natively/
*gone*

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Re: Important: Windows support is/will be dropped

Postby madmoneymike5 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:13 pm

Yes, I can see where you could believe that. However, I'll again point out that my general assumption is that the developers and financial backers of ownCloud are looking to obtain marketshare in the cloud file sync industry and compete directly or indirectly with the likes of Amazon, DropBox, etc. In that case, it would seem like a wise decision, from a business perspective, to offer both a Windows, Linux, and Apple server, and to strive to actively recruit the necessary talent. I don't see this situation as one where its the user's/customer's responsibility to develop the software s/he seeks.

If, however, my assumption that this is a business venture is wrong, and that this is someone's or a group's hobby/pet-project with zero intentions for capital gain, then by all means, continue...

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Re: Important: Windows support is/will be dropped

Postby RealRancor » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:53 pm

Hi,

as you might already have read the enterprise usage of ownCloud on Windows was 3%. Together with the fact that Linux is just THE operating system for servers on non-enterprise environments you probably don't need to compete with Windows support against Dropbox et al.

Overall it make less sense to discuss here what the dev team or ownCloud Inc. needs to do or not as we users probably can't change that much in this direction. Maybe you can share your thoughts with the developers team at either the dev mailinglist on:

https://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

or at the IRC channel #owncloud-dev at freenode.
*gone*

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Re: Important: Windows support is/will be dropped

Postby RickoT » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:15 pm

I am really quite upset right now because before I just moved my entire hosting server to windows, I spent a whole 3 weeks researching getting OwnCloud working on a windows server and no where did I find anything that said that OwnCloud was discontinuing windows support. Now, firstly I am an IT pro in the industry for almost 20 years. I know a lot about Linux, but I hate it, its just not my thing. I know enough to do what I need to do but I feel at home running a windows server.

I literally just migrated my entire VPS from an Ubuntu VPS to a Windows VPS because I got tired of dealing with all of the little nuances of Linux that I just don't get, and don't really have the time to learn and understand.

I came here today to try and find a solution (or post a bug) for an issue I am having with syncing files that have + signs in them, and for the first time I am seeing a post like this and I am very disappointed.

OwnCloud is a super solid product! its amazing! So far as I know, there is nothing else like it on the market for people like me who want to host their own stuff. That being said, my search begins now for something that will work naively on windows since apparently i have to replace my OwnCloud with something else (this makes me sad)

I have read through this entire post, and a few people nailed it. Really, IIS, NTFS, and Windows don't just randomly delete files, if that were the case we'd have a lot more issues. I am sad to see that the OwnCloud team is just dropping the whole OS because "Business users don't use windows" which is obviously untrue, instead of fixing the product that obviously has issues.

Remember, Owncloud was a private personal offering first. What about those of us who are not business people who have been using this product for 4 + generations of the product who believed in what it stood for. I guess that isn't worth anything, its really all about money I suppose.

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Re: Important: Windows support is/will be dropped

Postby RealRancor » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:37 pm

Hi,

sorry but nothing what we users in here can do about this. See the topic linked in my signature where to contact the people who made this decision.

Really, IIS, NTFS, and Windows don't just randomly delete files, if that were the case we'd have a lot more issues.


Please read the linked blogpost for the reasons why the support was dropped and the issues with PHP on Windows which was the main reason for this decision.

instead of fixing the product that obviously has issues.


Also please read the linked blogpost. I don't think the blogpost is mentioning out of fun that the oC devs had worked with Microsoft to fix issues with PHP on Windows.

no where did I find anything that said that OwnCloud was discontinuing windows support.


The two links in the first post are clearly stating this. The download page is https://owncloud.org/install/#instructions-server saying the following:

ownCloud can be installed on Linux operating systems


Any other place you have expected this information?
*gone*

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Re: Important: Windows support is/will be dropped

Postby Darkk » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:04 pm

Not to add any more fuel to the fire but I do understand where both sides are coming from. I've been using OC8 on FreeBSD with help from FreeNAS forums as it wasn't easy to step up at first. FreeNAS have a Plugin that will automatically install and configure it for you in seconds. I rather do the hard way for better customization such as SSL support and more control of the mount points to store the files.

I've been a Windows / Linux admin for several years. Windows environment usually just works when you install a piece of software. However, there is a much larger dev support for Windows than other OS out there but it's also a headache to maintain on the software side. Windows is just massively overcomplicated piece of software with so many DLL libraries and not to mention other vendor software that needs to be compatible with it. Windows updates just adds more to the headaches.

So if customer base is only 3% Windows then it makes business sense to drop support. I know it's going to ruffle a few feathers but users do have a choice. Either find another software or use VM since it's already configured and ready to go out of the box.

I've heard both sides of the story about learning Linux. Some say it's easy others it's hard. I think the biggest learning curve the fact Windows is all GUI while Linux is command line with text editors. There are Web GUI tools out there that can make it easy to maintain Linux server such as Webmin, also free and open source software.

I agree running a OC8 VM on a big server isn't ideal but it's the quickest way to get it running on a Windows server. Oracle VirtualBox is free and very stable. Another advantage if something should go wrong with the VM due to configuration change or failed updates you can quickly revert it to previous state using snapshots in VirtualBox.

I use VirtualBox alot for testing on my Linux Mint 17.1 workstation at home.

Change is something not everybody embraces. It was hard for me to switch Windows 7 to Linux Mint 17 at home as I was fed up with weird problems in Windows. When I made the switch it wasn't bad at all. Just some quirks I had to figure out and once I got that ironed out I have a nice working Linux PC at home. Going to a MAC wasn't an option for me as I've invested too much in PC hardware.

Hope this helps.


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